Keltec Sub 2000 Mods
I wanted to write up a review comparing and contrasting two of the major pistol-caliber rifle options on the market today, the Kel Tec Sub-2000 and the MechTech upper receiver. I've owned both (separately) and had a hard time finding a direct, head-to-head comparison of the two. I hope this helps others make a decision!First, the Kel Tec Sub-2000 (hereafter referred to as the S2K).The is offered in 2 calibers and multiple models, designed to accept handgun magazine from a variety of manufacturers. S2K's come in 9mm models, accepting magazines from Glock 17, Glock 19, S&W 59, Beretta 92 and SIG 226 handguns and in.40 S&W models with magazine wells designed for Glock 22, Glock 23, S&W 4006, Beretta 96 and SIG 226 magazines. H-i41-uatx rev 1.1 bios.
The great thing about this, obviously, is the ability to interchange not just ammunition but also magazines with your sidearm.Another innovative feature of the S2K is that it folds in half. When folded it is inoperable and can be locked in the folded position, providing adherence to restrictive gun laws in some states that otherwise don't allow rifles to collapse or change size. Folded size is 16' x 7', with a little over an inch of thickness. The folded position leaves the bolt face and barrel exposed and the front sight tower latched into the buttstock (locking being optional). The rear sight is a non-adjustable peep, basically a hole drilled in a piece of plastic. The front sight is a hooded, neon-colored blade of translucent plastic which is adjustable vertically by loosening a set screw and moving the blade.
Lateral adjustment is provided by the turning the same set screw. Kel Tec does offer and the option of a that still allows for full use of the folding feature, albeit with a sight hanging off the side of the folded gun.Controls are unique with the bolt being operated by a handle hanging under the buffer tube between the receiver and the shoulder stock. It can be locked open by pulling the bolt back and sliding it sideways into a notch. There is no 'last round hold open' feature on the S2K. There is a manual safety located above the pistol grip; there is no magazine safety. Kel Tec prohibits the use of aluminum cased ammunition in the S2K.I bought my S2K (a 9mm Glock 17 model) from Wild Bill's in Molalla a few years ago. It was an impulse purchase, I had heard about the guns and when I happened to see one I snatched it up.
Note: Kel Tec ships all their S2K's with 10-round, single-stack magazines. It was a good gun, and I purchased a Glock 19 to go along with it. Research showed that a Glock 19 model of the S2K existed but was hard to find, so I wrote the factory regarding a conversion.
They replied that they could do the work for free if I shipped the gun back to them, or I could have a local gunsmith do it; I elected to have the modification done locally. It was easy really, the only modification required was shortening the grip 1/2' to accommodate the shorter magazine. It still accepted the standard Glock 17 magazine and did well with the 33 round mags as well.Overall I thought it was a good gun. I added a (available from Kel Tec) for a little longer LOP and put on it, although I never could get the sling adjusted to sit right for me. The stock is otherwise fixed in length. The sights were a little chintzy and hard to adjust with precision, but it was still a fun gun to shoot. I never really tried grouping it, and the results probably would have been less than the gun is really capable of (my rifle shooting has progressed immensely since then, thanks Appleseed!).
I liked the ability to swap magazines with my carry gun as well.In the end, I sold it to finance a suppressor.My Sub-2000:The MechTech UpperThe is not technically a firearm, but rather a firearm accessory. It is basically a pistol-caliber rifle upper that accepts a pistol lower to make a complete, functioning rifle. That means it can be shipped directly to your home without having to go through an FFL.
They currently make multiple models designed to accept frames from Glocks (compact and full sized) to fire 9mm,.40 S&W, 10mm and.45 ACP. They also make models in 9mm,.380 super,.40 S&W, 460 Rowland and.45 ACP designed to work with 1911 frames and the appropriate magazines. Are available, including a telescoping wire-framed stock, a fixed stock, an M4-style adjustable stock and an M4-style stock mount that allows you to screw in your own AR buffer tube and slide on the stock of your choice.
There are multiple foreend, rail and sight options available as well. When you order your upper form the factory they will install everything you've requested for no additional charge and ship it to you fully assembled (less the pistol frame).The version I have is a 9mm model designed to accept a compact Glock frame. Just as the frames on the Glock 19, 23 and 32 are functionally the same (with different slides and barrels), any of these three compact Glock frames will fit regardless of the upper's caliber. I bought mine used off NWFA with the telescoping wire stock, a single sight rail on the 'receiver' and the 'muzzle decoration' as MechTech calls it. It's not really a muzzle brake or a flash hider, it's just a decorative thing that is attached to the barrel via a sweat fit at the factory. Removal requires it to be turned off on a lathe; you can also order the upper without it.The bolt is operated from the left side, with a handle sticking out about 3/4'. The bolt can be locked open by pulling fully rearward and pushing the handle in roughly 1/8'; it is released by pulling the handle out.
Kel Tec Sub 2000 Mods
Like the Kel Tec the bolt is not held open on the last shot. There is no manual safety, although any manual safety installed on the pistol frame (aftermarket Glock or standard 1911) should work with the upper. They say that extended 1911 safeties won't work with the MechTech upper, as the extended length won't allow full engagement.Assembly is easy-ish. The Glock model requires the use of a 'Glockblock', a small machined piece of metal that sits on the pistol frame just forward of the magazine well (the 1911 version requires a similar 'Parablock'). The latest versions have a small magnet to hold it in position during assembly; once assembled the block is captured between the frame and upper.
It acts as an intermediate feed ramp between the magazine and the upper, and it seems to do the job well. With the Glockblock in place on the pistol frame the four rail tabs are engaged into mating spots on the upper and the pistol frame is pushed forward against a rubber bumper, compressing it until the frame's takedown lever is fully engaged (similar to putting a Glock pistol back together), locking everything together. Disassembly is the reverse; push the pistol frame forward against the upper, compressing the bumper enough to allow the takedown lever to be slid downward so that the frame can be slid backwards off the upper. Quite a bit of force is required for either operation, and the factory includes a rubber cane-tip to put over the muzzle, allowing you to put the upper muzzle-down and push against the floor for assembly or disassembly without damaging anything.No sights are included unless you order them, and since mine came with a single short rail I decided to mount an inexpensive red dot (a from Bi-Mart).
It shoots well, the trigger reset is similar to a standard Glock pistol and it is accurate enough at 50 yards. I was able to maintain 2-3' groups with reloads the last time I was out.Side note: when I bought the MechTech the rubber bumper had been shaved down to roughly 60% thickness by one or more previous owners, making assembly and disassembly easier. In use I found that the lower wasn't properly engaging the striker/firing pin on the upper when I pulled the trigger, leading it to not fire most of the time. I suspected the carved-down bumper to be the culprit, so for diagnostic purposes I shimmed it a bit with some fiberboard and it worked great. I wrote Mech-Tech and explained the situation and they sent me a free bumper!
Replacement was easy, I shaved the old one off the foreend and glued the new one back on with gelled CA; operation has been flawless through 150 rounds. They were also nice enough to send me a new-style latch for the telescoping stock that allowed actuation by pushing up from the bottom rather than pulling up from the top.Overall, I prefer the MechTech over the Kel Tec.
Although it's heavier, it's also more robust and feels more like a rifle should than the S2K. I can't really explain what that means, but most of you will understand that intangible sort of feel that comes from shooting a stable long weapon. Additionally, the MechTech with the telescoping stock can be shortened to an overall length of 25' (26 3/4' with the muzzle dec), making for a compact package that still functions as a firearm. I wasn't really impressed with the sights on the S2K, and all the aftermarket options interfered with the folding feature (either by not allowing it to fold or by handing off the side of the folded gun).I admit that I'm a little bit leery of a rifle with no manual safety. My plans include purchasing a dedicated Glock frame to use with the upper (they're available on Gunbroker for $200-250) and having a manual safety installed on that frame for use on the rifle.
I also plan on having the muzzle dec turned off and the barrel threaded by a gunsmith.My MechTech:The original telescoping stock latch:The new telescoping stock latch (with retaining screw removed):That's all! Feel free to ask any questions you might have and I'll be glad to answer them. I owned an S2K but ultimately sold it.
The more I shot it the more I disliked it. I realized the plastic parts were eventually going to break then I would be machining new, steel parts to replace them. Also I discovered it was very difficult to disassemble, clean and reassemble and if not careful on reassembly one could damage something beyond repair, such as the molded 'bosses' for the many pins it had. Also as Modeler said it did not have the 'feel' of a rifle in hand.
I also did not like the fact the barrel was epoxied in place. There is a 'fix' for this but I already had too many projects as it was to take the time to mess with it any further so I sold it.
In summary I did not see it as a 'long term' quality firearm, and one I could not depend on. I'll take high-quality, less capacity over high cap, less quality anytime. Thanks for the awesome review and comparison. I've been mulling over a decision between the two carbines for a while and am leaning toward the Mechtech with a dedicated lower.One question for you though.
How do you like shooting with the wire stock? I've never used one and am curious as to it's feel.
How's your cheek weld? Also, how many points of adjustment does it have? I think I like the wire over the M4 style stock due to being more compact, but am curious as to your impressions. Thanks for the awesome review and comparison.
I've been mulling over a decision between the two carbines for a while and am leaning toward the Mechtech with a dedicated lower.One question for you though. How do you like shooting with the wire stock? I've never used one and am curious as to it's feel. How's your cheek weld? Also, how many points of adjustment does it have? I think I like the wire over the M4 style stock due to being more compact, but am curious as to your impressions. Click to expand.The wire stock is alright.
It feels fairly solid, the cheek weld is mostly not there (nothing much to weld to). In total it has 4 points of adjustment with notches at roughly 18', 16', 14' and 10' LOP. The old style latch was no good with the wire stock, the little tab would come back and hit me in the cheek at the 14' LOP.
It's not an issue with the new replacement latch though and even less of an issue if I go with the 16' LOPIs it as comfortable to shoot as an M4 would be? No.Does the compactness of the wire stock make up for the less comfortable cheek weld? I have the.45 ACP Mech-Tech on a Glock 21 frame, and it's worked flawlessly. I scored a few Kriss 30-round mags before the panic, and boy are they ever fun to dump through that monster!Patrick Murphy at ORL-LLC did the mods.
Kel Tec Sub 2000 Modifications
He fitted a folding, locking front grip that covers the trigger when folded, serving as the only safety. He threaded the muzzle for my Osprey suppressor. And most impressively, he fabricated and welded up a bracket to the rear that accepts an Uzi folding stock. The original mounting stud was pretty wimpy, but not so this custom version.It's got an ATI red dot on it and a single-point sling.
Kel-tec Sub 2000 Gen 2 Mods
The substantial weight of the thing feels good when blazing away through a pound of 230 gr. And like I said, it has performed without a single hiccup.
I have the.45 ACP Mech-Tech on a Glock 21 frame, and it's worked flawlessly. I scored a few Kriss 30-round mags before the panic, and boy are they ever fun to dump through that monster!Patrick Murphy at ORL-LLC did the mods.
He fitted a folding, locking front grip that covers the trigger when folded, serving as the only safety. He threaded the muzzle for my Osprey suppressor. And most impressively, he fabricated and welded up a bracket to the rear that accepts an Uzi folding stock. The original mounting stud was pretty wimpy, but not so this custom version.It's got an ATI red dot on it and a single-point sling. The substantial weight of the thing feels good when blazing away through a pound of 230 gr.
And like I said, it has performed without a single hiccup. I have the.45 ACP Mech-Tech on a Glock 21 frame, and it's worked flawlessly.
I scored a few Kriss 30-round mags before the panic, and boy are they ever fun to dump through that monster!Patrick Murphy at ORL-LLC did the mods. He fitted a folding, locking front grip that covers the trigger when folded, serving as the only safety. He threaded the muzzle for my Osprey suppressor. And most impressively, he fabricated and welded up a bracket to the rear that accepts an Uzi folding stock. The original mounting stud was pretty wimpy, but not so this custom version.It's got an ATI red dot on it and a single-point sling. The substantial weight of the thing feels good when blazing away through a pound of 230 gr. And like I said, it has performed without a single hiccup.
I've always liked the concept of a pistol caliber carbine ever since someone told me about the Ruger.44 Magnum Carbine. At the time, I just acquired a beautiful used Smith and Wesson 629.44 Magnum revolver, but Ruger had discontinued the.44 Magnum carbine by the time I learned that it existed. This was all back in the early 1990's before on-line auction sites and the ready access to discontinued firearms we all enjoy today.
I prowled a few gun shows hoping to spot one for sale, but I never found one. The appreciation for the idea remained strong, but I gave up on the active pursuit.After purchasing a Kel-Tec P-32, I started hanging around the KTOG Forum and learned about the SUB-2000 9mm carbine. My pistol caliber carbine interest was fueled again. Since I owned a Glock 17, it was logical that I should buy the Glock 9mm pattern SUB-2000 so I could use the Glock 17 magazines in the SUB-2000 Carbine. I had no problem tracking down the carbine at a local dealer.I have thoroughly enjoyed the SUB-2000 ownership experience since adding it to the collection. It's been 100% reliable and reasonably accurate out to 50 yards. Much more accurate than if I tried shooting the Glock 17 at that distance.
Some guns are just fun to shoot and the SUB-2000 is one of those fun guns you can look forward to getting out on the range.Like most guns, there are always customizations and add-ons that can make your SUB-2000 uniquely yours. I've seen SUB-2000s with insane $1000 plus customization packages applied to them. I've always wanted to customize mine, but only to change out a few basic parts that would enhance my overall shooting experience with the carbine. I really like that the SUB-2000 is compact, light, and folds for storage so my modification list doesn't impact any of those features. I consider this level of modification to be low impact and easily changed back to the factory configuration if I want to do that in the future.TANDEMKROSS offers a package of 4 upgrade components for the SUB-2000. They offer each component individually, or as a combo package.
I've always appreciated the detailed color installation instructions that come with every TANDEMKROSS product. They also have several YouTube installation videos available. They make it easy to be successful installing their upgrades.The TANDEMKROSS upgrade package focuses on replacing the plastic Kel-Tec sight components with metal replacement parts. They also add some unique features with their parts that Kel-Tec doesn't offer.The most unique item in the package is the Eagle Eye rear sight.
For the folks running top rail optics, having the ability to fold down the rear sight could be a tremendous benefit. I like the sight because it eliminates the peep sight and replaces it with a notched rear sight. At 50 yards or less, I prefer this type of sight.If you spend enough time on the Kel-Tec forum you will see complaints about the factory front sight cracking/breaking/failing.
The TANDEMKROSS front sight replacement should eliminate those problems while still providing a high-visibility fiber optic insert. The fiber optic is easily replaceable if it should be damaged.Kel-Tec also offers accessories for the SUB-2000. From their list of available accessories, I liked the Dust Cover and Stock Extension. The Dust Cover minimizes the chance of something getting into the barrel when the carbine is folded and the Stock Extension adds about 1.5 inches to the length of pull.
Perhaps I'll try the Sub Picatinny Rail and Spare Magazine Holder if I decide to make more invasive modifications in the future.With a folded length of about 16.5', the SUB-2000 is too large for most pistol cases and too small to justify a compact rifle case. With some searching, I found the REX Scoped Handgun Case from Soft Armor.
This case is a bit larger than it needs to be, but it will hold both the SUB-2000 carbine and Glock 17 pistol along with a boatload of magazines.The total package price for all the modifications and case was less than $150.00 if you include shipping costs. That may seem like quite a bit to add to a rifle that sells for under $350 in normal market conditions. For me it was easy to justify the cost because it will make my SUB-2000 more fun, and hopefully accurate, for many years to come.The video describes the upgrades in more detail. I did the actual installations off camera in the interest of keeping it short.
All the parts installations went smoothly and were really easy to do without using any specialized tools.